Quote:

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1) I think that something portable like an "Alchemist's Staff" or "Alchemist's Ring" as a sorter would be impractical, simply because if the PC tried to activate it from a different cell from the jars - particularly if 72 game hours had passed since last being near the jars - Bad Things (tm) are guaranteed to happen. So the sorter must be something that will not move, once placed.

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I don't see why this should be an issue. My own personal alchemy sorter works fine, no matter how close or far away the jars are. Now, I have had problems attaching the sorter script to a nominally portable object like a ring or a scroll (can't figure out why it doesn't work), but this doesn't mean that a portable sorter device isn't possible.

I propose a script that looks something like this:
Code:

---

Begin SorterDevice

short button
short variable
short use

If ( MenuMode == 1 )
	Return
Endif

if ( OnActivate == 1 )
	MessageBox "Do you want to do?" "Sort Reagents" "Pick  up the Sorter."
	set variable to 1
endif

if ( variable == 1 )
	set button to GetButtonPressed
	if ( button == 0 )
		Set use to 1
		Set variable to 0
	endif
	if ( button == 1 )
		Activate
		Set variable to 0
		endif
endif

if ( use == 1 )
	StartScript AlchemySorterScript
	set use to 0
endif

end 
 

---

This can be attached to a small miscellenous item. To use it, place the item on the ground, and then click on it. You'll be given the option to either sort your stuff, or to pick the sorter back up.

This assumes that your sorter script is a global script. If it isn't, it can be easily converted (just don't forget to add a stopscript command at the end).

While I've haven't tested the above script per se, it is actually just a very slight modification to my portable genie merchant, a script that I have tested rather extensively.

--------------------
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Additionally, I'm not sure if you plan on doing this, but there was a sorter made for Artuzu v2.5 - Artuzu Alchemy Machine v2- which has the ability for the character to pick an end effect and sort the ingredients needed for that end effect into a receptical for the player to pick up. The player could choose 1, 5, 15 or 20 ingredients at a time.

---

Artuzu is something that I have been plugging for awhile. Aquiantus hasn't gotten the recogintion that he deserves for this clever little piece of scripting.

However, it is possible to add even greater flexibility to the sorter menu. I have recently discovered a way for the player to enter in exact numbers for menu commands ( I was going to save this piece of news for my normal Sunday update, but what the hell...). Basically, instead of having to choose between a fixed set of numerical options (i. e. 1, 5, 15, 20 ), you can allow the player ot enter in any number he/she wants.

Well, almost...

The script looks like this:

Code:

---

begin HF_AlterCapScript

short button
short var
If ( var == 0 )
	Messagebox, "What do you want to set the hundreds digit to?", "0", "1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6", "7", "8"
	set var to 1
Endif

If ( var == 1 )
	set button to GetButtonPressed
	If ( button = -1 )
		return
	Endif
	set hfscratch1 to ( button * 100 )
	set var to 2
	set button to -1
Endif

If ( var == 2 )
	Messagebox, "What do you want to set the tens digit to?",  "0", "1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6", "7", "8"
	set var to 3
Endif

If ( var == 3 )
	set button to GetButtonPressed
	If ( button = -1 )
		return
	Endif
	set hfscratch1 to ( hfscratch1 + button * 10 )
	set var to 4
	set button to -1
Endif
 
If ( var == 4 )
	Messagebox, "What do you want to set the ones digit to?",  "0", "1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6", "7", "8"
	set var to 5
Endif

If ( var == 5 )
	set button to GetButtonPressed
	If ( button = -1 )
		return
	Endif
	set hfscratch1 to ( hfscratch1 + button )
	set var to 6
Endif
If ( var == 6 )
Stopscript, HF_AlterCapScript
set button to -1
set var to 0
Endif
End

---

"hfscratch1" is a generic variable that I use as a temporary "scratch pad" to store globals that I need for only a sort peroid of time.

As you can see, you can specify almost any number you want. There is one hitch: You can only have 9 buttons on a messagebox, meaning that you have to omit one of the ten digits. In this script, I chose to omit the numeral nine, but I could have deleted any number that I wanted. This restriction is irritating, but not as bad as it sounds. The flexibility is wonderful, even if you can't choose numbers containing a specific digit.

This may be a bit too much for an alchemy retreiver. The above script was designed for situations where the player has to make very important and exact financial decisions. Such a high degree of control for an alchemy retreiver may be overkill. Still, it's a pretty sexy feature.

--------------------
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Sounds like a great idea!

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I couldnt agree more!

Im not toobig on using alchemy, but with this, i think ill take intrest in the skill

these are for you vorwoda:

--------------------
Lo there do I see my father
Lo there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning
Lo they do call to me
They bid me take mt place among them,
In the halls of Valhalla
Where the brave
may live
forever

Hurry to meet death before your place is taken



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I'm considering using a Dwemer Spider Centurion as the most credible creature for this sort of task.

---

gosh you know what would be really neat -- a genie!! If only someone had a genie who could pop out of her magic bottle and tidy up for you. Gosh whereever could we find something like that!

Re the container -- there's a few cauldrons in the game that either are containers or activators - I forget now - but a cauldron might be nifty. One hangs from a tripod and one's a great squat thing that sits there like the mouth of doom.

Re the jars - I think the blue jars look the most professional but I have a really hard time reading them. I'd like to see a combo of the lids from crazyboy's jars and the labels from Andoreth's.

I wonder - would it be practical to sell a cabinet already set up? For example if I bought a mineral cabinet I would get one of Dongle's cases witht he jars already placed and I could move it as a unit. Might be less fiddly? Or it might be moreso - I'm not sure which


--------------------
Ronin's "Everything You've Every Wanted to Know About Mods But Were Afraid To Ask" Thread

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VagabondAngel,
I may need a bit of texture help, since I have less graphic arts skills than a Dwemer Spider Centurion. Thanks!

---

Mine's more pack guar level I think Give me a shout if you need.

And best of luck making this happen - its a truly utilitarian mod

--------------------
My creations:

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HotFusion3
Does your sorter work in a separate interior cell, after you have not visited the cell with the jars for more than 72 game hours? I'm concerned that the 72-hour bug (whereby the game loses track of NPCs after the player has been away from them for more than 72 hours) might extend to items referenced by active scripts, as well. Additionally, I have seen the quirks with the "Bags of Holding" in various mods. Basically, after a reload, the PC must go back to the cell containing the target container (in this case, the Alchemy jars) before the "Bag of Holding" (in this case the Staff or Ring) would function again. This losing track due to reloads or 72 hours of no contact seems to be an inherent flaw in the game engine.

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Quote:

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If you have defeated those limitations, I would be interested to learn your technique.

---

Funny thing is, I think I do have a solution. Modify the sorter script so that lines like this:

HornLilyJar -> additem Ingred_horn_lily_bulb_01 128

become lines like this:

set HornLilyAdd to ( HornLilyAdd + 128 )

where HornLilyAdd is a global variable.

Then attach a new script to each of the alchemy jars (the real versions):

Code:

---

Begin bHF_ShalkresinScript
short open
If ( OnActivate == 1 )
	While ( HFShalkresinAdd >= 128 )
		AddItem, Ingred_Shalk_resin_01,128
		set HFShalkresinAdd to ( HFShalkresinAdd - 128 )
	EndWhile
	.
        .
         and so on...
        .
	If ( HFShalkresinAdd >= 1 )
		Additem, Ingred_Shalk_resin_01, 1
		set HFShalkresinAdd to ( HFShalkresinAdd - 1 )
	Endif
	removeitem hfstuff 1
	set open to 1
	Activate
Endif
If ( open == 1 )
	Additem HFStuff 1
	set open to 0
Endif
End

---

Here's how it works: When the sorter removes your ingredients, it credits an account for that particular reagent. If, for example, it removes five corkbulbs from your person, it makes a note that it "owes" you five corkbulbs. This account is stored in a global variable, a separate one for each ingredient.

When you open an alchemy jar, it checks to see if you are "owed" any ingredients. If you are, it adds the appropriate number of reagents to the jar before you even get to peek inside, and then zeros out your account.

I have never noticed any slow-down when using this sytem, and I have used the console to the set the account as high as ten thousand before.

A side-note... for some reason, AddItem and GetItemCount are buggy if the container in question starts out empty. It is therefore necessary to add a dummy item to the container when it would otherwise be empty. The item "HFStuff1" is this dummy item. If you check the script, you'll see that it is added to the container when you close it, and removed right before you open it. Usually, the player will never see it, although it does pop up if the player empties the container (it appears as "A piece of worthless dust").

I actually wrote this script to solve an entirely different problem, but it should handle this dilemma quite nicely.



--------------------
Read the Sim-Manor thread!

But first, read the Old Sim-manor Thread!

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Quote:

---

1) One merchant will be added who will sell the sorter devices and the jars.

---

Quote:

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The Player will be responsible for buying any jars he wants, but will not need to buy all of them if he does not wish to - or cannot afford to

---

Quote:

---

2) The PC can then take the "dummy" Miscellaneous Item Jars and Sorter home and place them. When activated, there will be a pop-up menu asking the player if he wants to move the jar or lock it in place. Once locked, the Item will be swapped out for the real jar or sorter and cannot be moved thereafter.
3) Thanks to HotFusion's idea, the sorter script will only sort for those items whose jars are locked in place.

---

Quote:

---

) I'll do one version with support for Sri's and one without, to save those without the mod from running unnecessary code, thus hopefully saving them a bit of processing time.

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Quote:

---

So the sorter must be something that will not move, once placed.

---

Register one vote for that solution - I think some simplicity will assist in making this do-able and sooner-able. Bells n'whistles later . . . if desired.

Quote:

---

Dwemer Spider Centurion

---

Quote:

---

MessageBox driven device

---

Quote:

---

My own idea is to "mix and match" using the small jars with picture labels for plant based ingredients, the big blue ones with text labels for animal parts, and something else for minerals.

---

Quote:

---

As for the Alchemy machine, that automatically pulls the correct ingredients for you on demand . . . If someone else (HotFusion, maybe) wants to do an add-on later, I'd have no objection.

---

Agreed . . . thank you. I understand others might like this capability but I would rather it not be available in this version.

Overall, the less 'fussy' this is the better - in aesthetics, operation, placement and scripted capabilities, in my opinion. I suggest this is going to become one of those classic 'must have' mods: the more user-friendly, simple and robust it is, the better. Which suggests that the merchant also provide a simple users' guide perhaps. [For simple users! ]


--------------------
"And to everyone seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer to all your troubles." Neoptolemus

Mythic Mods ----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.

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Quote:

---

Anglish,
Yes, that's correct. I could make them mobile again afterwards, but think what would happen if you accidentally swapped the container full of hard-won Ash Salts or Diamonds for the mobile "dummy box", thus losing all of the ingredients! The resulting "this @#$%@#$mod screwed up my game" thread is not something I plan on causing. Sorry.

---

well i guess that makes sence...fair enough... oh and finish UA ...sorry had to stick that in there somewhere

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Quote:

---

I like the idea of a dwemer device to do the sorting.

---

--------------------
"And to everyone seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer to all your troubles." Neoptolemus

Mythic Mods ----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.

Post Extras:      

Quote:

---

you miss my point

---

Nope, just don't find much with which to agree.

The 'point' was actually "Oh .. . . and bump. ". But thanks anyway for letting me know who is authoring the mod.
You may find THIS useful - or not.

--------------------
"And to everyone seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer to all your troubles." Neoptolemus

Mythic Mods ----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.

Edited by Ronin49 (06/04/04 10:41 PM)

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Quote:

---

You may find THIS useful - or not.

---

I posted it in--so I probably did.

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Okay, let's go down the list.

shannon, Yu-Gi, TheUndeadKing, brady
Thanks for the support!

Override,
Please don't think I was ignoring you, we posted at the same time, and your post arrived first. Frankly, since most of the folks who expressed an opinion on jars (including Yu-Gi who seems to have had a change of heart) voted for eclecticism over uniformity, I'll need at least a third set of containers. If you can put up a pic of yours, and drop a link here, I'd appreciate it.

MeghanAJH,
I'll get back to Genie, I promise! As soon as I finish coordinating the debugging of ModTown and release this Alchemy Sorter Mod, I'll get back to her.

VagabondAngel,
I probably will. Soon.

HotFusion,
That's very similar to things I did in Hippolyta and Decius (ages ago) and for Rambo (recently), so I clearly understand what you mean. The 72 hour bug concerns NPCs, but I was wondering if you'd had problems with it affecting script bearing objects. Glad to hear you haven't, that's a huge relief!

Quite apart from that, the bug that seems to strike remote object gadgets is after a reload, and the second part of my question was whether THAT has caused you any problems. (Use your remote sorter, save and reload, and then go check the jars). Bags of holding (which operate similarly as scripted remote activators) tend to malfunction after a reload unless the bearer returns to the target container's cell.

Ronin,
I could set it up to sell a whole set (through dialogue) or item by item (through normal channels). Mixing the two could easily lead to bugs. So here's another opinion-seeking question for everyone: Would you all rather like to buy the jars piecemeal, or as a set?

Anglish,
Since I am the last "surviving" member of the UA team, and since I joined as new kid on the block when it was already underway, it is slow going. I keep hoping to hear back from Grumblepunk on the bits that were his end of things. He had returned and then vanished again. I may have to try another channel. But Genie is coming first.

fable,

Quote:

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This is an ease-of-use feature, not a power gain one.

---

Point taken. But I can't just sell a Spider Centurion for 2 Drakes, either - that would get silly (and I know you weren't suggesting anything that extreme). A typical slave NPC goes for 1000, so I don't think even 5,000 would be unreasonable for a Centurion. On the other hand, this Centurion won't fight, but merely stay at home and sort stuff, so a cut rate of 3,000 is probably reasonable (for a non-combat unit). Add a drake or two per jar, and I think we have a fair price, don't you? The other sorter(s) will be the same price as the Centurion, to make sure that nobody is unduly favoured or penalized merely due to their tastes.

Carnajo,
I think I can deal with that.

Ronin and fable,
Come on, gang, let's not squabble! I think I've decided on the sorter forms:

Creature:
Dwemer Spider Centurion. Skeleton and Scamp options will be available via a different route.

Device:
Dwemer Chest in keeping with the Dwemer theme).

I thought about the cauldron suggestion, but a cauldron is really for mixing things, rather than separating them. And the chest seemd like the most popular choice there.

I should have ModTown on its way this weekend, so this Sorter is my next priority.



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Quote:

---

Would you all rather like to buy the jars piecemeal, or as a set?

---

I for one would vote for a complete set, just for ease of use and to set it up quicker. I'd like too throw out the idea of using one box mesh or something similar for the set then exchanging for the real jars once the sorta is in place(just in case you haven't considered this). This way it wouldn't need lots of inventory slots either.
Real happy to hear your releasing the ModTown mod this weekend. I'm gonna be around here then for sure looking it.

--------------------
Once sailed the seas Now roams the land


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Quote:

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There are several excellent sets of Alchemy jar nifs and textures out there. Standard practice up to now has been to provide one uniform set. What set is the popular favourite? My own idea is to "mix and match" using the small jars with picture labels for plant based ingredients, the big blue ones with text labels for animal parts, and something else for minerals. This is all, of course, provided I can get permission from the artists. Opinions?

---

I like the idea of mix and match...I like this mod idea in general, Vorwoda...thanks



--------------------
"Szczescie jest pomiedzy ustami i brzegiem kielicha"
"happiness is between the lips and the rim of a glass"

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Quote:

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it would solve my problem of, well, a BIG mess in the Mages guild where I live...

---

....can relate to this

--------------------
"Szczescie jest pomiedzy ustami i brzegiem kielicha"
"happiness is between the lips and the rim of a glass"

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This should be a prize to any serious Alchemist,

---

Indeed! I spend a good deal of time sorting ingredients into animal, vegetable and mineral containers; having them all sorted automatically would be an immense help!

is there a quick way to unload all ingredients(or a set number of each) back into a container or the players inventory for.. experimentation?

--------------------
Overunity... The Plugin Manager that Makes Sense!

View My Screenshots

SPACE HAS A TERRIBLE POWER


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Outstanding! I think this mod will shoot right to the top of my 'must have' list!

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I agree, it will be a must for anybody interested in Alchemy!

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Vagabond Angel,
The one snag I'm hitting is the one you volunteered to help with: artwork. While the Artuzu set and the JJS set are nicely filled out, the one with the large blue jars with text labels is missing quite a number of pieces. I will PM you with my "missing list" tomorrow, if you're still game to help.

---

No problem VW - just give me a shout and I'll see what I can do.

--------------------
My creations:

Ordinator Armour Replacer
Black and Silver Elite Indoril
Violet Femme Boutique

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Quote:

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Grahl Eyeball

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Is it unique ? I don't think so. The Flaming eye of the Lightkeeper is unique but not Grahl eyeball.

--------------------
Tamriel Rebuilt

From the point of view of banal erudition not every local personality can ignore tendentions of his paradoxal emotions in given time continuum.

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The only ingredients for which I am NOT supplying sorter support are the unique, cursed, quest item and limited quantity ones.

---

While it's true that Grahl Eyeballs are not unique (neither is Human Flesh for example) they are only available in limited quantity. IIRC, only about a dozen of each are available in the game, and they do not appear on levelled lists. When they're gone, they're GONE! Hope that clears things up.

I have been painstakingly double-checking ALL ingredients from MW/TB/BM with that in mind, as a safeguard for the players.

VA,
A PM with full details is on its way. And thanks for being so staunch and valiant! Your courage is an example to us all!

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And thanks for being so staunch and valiant! Your courage is an example to us all!

---

Hmmm - ever heard of setting a bad example? Thanks VW, I shall endeavour to fulfill my role as skillfully and as intrepidly as I can.

--------------------
My creations:

Ordinator Armour Replacer
Black and Silver Elite Indoril
Violet Femme Boutique

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Quote:

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MC,

Quote:

---

The only ingredients for which I am NOT supplying sorter support are the unique, cursed, quest item and limited quantity ones.

---

While it's true that Grahl Eyeballs are not unique (neither is Human Flesh for example) they are only available in limited quantity. IIRC, only about a dozen of each are available in the game, and they do not appear on levelled lists. When they're gone, they're GONE! Hope that clears things up.

---

If you use Skricady's Alshemy they are not limited.

--------------------
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From the point of view of banal erudition not every local personality can ignore tendentions of his paradoxal emotions in given time continuum.

Post Extras:      

Quote:

---

Quote:

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MC,

Quote:

---

The only ingredients for which I am NOT supplying sorter support are the unique, cursed, quest item and limited quantity ones.

---

While it's true that Grahl Eyeballs are not unique (neither is Human Flesh for example) they are only available in limited quantity. IIRC, only about a dozen of each are available in the game, and they do not appear on levelled lists. When they're gone, they're GONE! Hope that clears things up.

---

If you use Skricady's Alshemy they are not limited.

---

Pardon me for butting in here but MC_S, this is neither helpful nor relevant really is it? So how about giving the pedantry a break eh? Please?

--------------------
My creations:

Ordinator Armour Replacer
Black and Silver Elite Indoril
Violet Femme Boutique

Post Extras:      

Okay, guys, let's not let this thread turn into one of the extra crispy ones, please!

Quote:

---

If you use Skricady's Alshemy they are not limited.

---

Thanks for pointing that out. While I took careful note of the ingredients added by Srikandi's Alchemy, I neglected to check for standard ingredients whose frequency was changed. I'll have another look at Sri's lists in more detail with an eye toward this.

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Quote:

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While I took careful note of the ingredients added by Srikandi's Alchemy, I neglected to check for standard ingredients whose frequency was changed. I'll have another look at Sri's lists in more detail with an eye toward this.

---

The Grahl eyeballs do turn up as noted, in generic sacks. I wouldn't call 'em common, but I've acquired more than a dozen with relative ease just by my usual habit for investigating everything in the environment and thoroughly enjoying the view.

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Quote:

---

Or any way to detect presence or absence of Sri's alchemy to allow sorting of those ingredients as well?

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See above for specifics.

Quote:

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The only ingredients for which I am NOT supplying sorter support are the unique, cursed, quest item and limited quantity ones. So any ingredients which come from original MW/TB/BM which are not sorted are rare or important for some reason, and are deliberately not referenced in my scripts because doing so might cause you to screw up a quest or use up the only such item in the world without realizing that you'll never find any more of them.

---

--------------------
"And to everyone seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer to all your troubles." Neoptolemus

Mythic Mods ----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.

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